Grens

[Elite]

Doing the exact same thing every single game is neither challenging nor exciting. Gren is the only sett I can think of where I can predict exactly how the game will unfold without even starting. 1v1 Grens for example = Standard start > rally rush key hill > hillcamp and boom/mass > push at 15-20 f11 with a hero or do so earlier without one, based on how many grens your enemy has thrown away trying to hit and run a hill (Basically how dumb is your opponent). Same civ same start same strat same age even the same upgrades every single game, i dont see how anyone can find it fun to play more than every once in a while. And the fact that someone experienced in liga can pick up grens after 2-3 games while a gren player would be lost in liga...I think proves something. Its a retarded sett. Just admit it and learn to play mod tl.

It took me several years after becoming decent at mod sh / pre sh to get decent at tl setts and especially liga. I'm still learning liga actually. On the other hand, I was in the top tier of gren players pretty much from the first game I played. Gren Wars is the least complex out of all the setts that are played on EE, I don't think you can argue to the contrary without simply discarding logic altogether.

That is what i just call , the not understand of what ee is. EE is a strategy gme ( realised the name saying the topic? ) it is all about tactic and startegy. I dont want to get further into this ''I was in the top tier of gren players pretty much from the first game I played'' because it is pathetic to try push your oppinion to the front so much. Like i said it is not about being a sh set not about being a tl set. Tl will not teach you sh or other way around, you at least have to observe some games to get how the sheme of the game is. Grenwar is the least complex, which is true , there is not as many things, to have in mind as in Liga. Still this set can be interessting, if you have a enemy who is willing to make up a nice game with you. If the game is going on fast, everyset can be quite nice.
In my oppinion there CAN be more exiting grens than there is Ligas, but mostly it is the other way around, because the people are not often making up an exiting gren game.
Conclusion for me is : An game with less opportunities can still be exiting. And if you are willing to do a speedy exiting gren, it will not be like you sitting in front the keyboard doing nothing. It is all about how you play it.

I am really worried you guys forgot the sheme ee is made for. EE is made for strategies, and there is different strats in every set, if you play gren all day long , i also would get bored. Especially with the slowmotion today, in gren. But i would get bored of liga after 10 games either. Swapping sets around keep them all interessting, also some grens a day are really fun !

[empire2]

It took me several years after becoming decent at mod sh / pre sh to get decent at tl setts and especially liga. I'm still learning liga actually. On the other hand, I was in the top tier of gren players pretty much from the first game I played. Gren Wars is the least complex out of all the setts that are played on EE, I don't think you can argue to the contrary without simply discarding logic altogether.

why don't you just go and read the post i've made in this topic a few days ago? I have explained it to you all pretty locigal so it's just up to you if your willed to get what i mean or not..

took me 1 full week to be able to beat the shit out of any mod tl player including idiots like lion or hoagy (that guy must be the biggest joke ever)

I have had god damn good liga, mod tl, mid sh, gren, indy sh, indy dm and so on games and to be honest, in grenwar and mid sh i always turn into a freak because it's simply stress pure while in mod tl this was not the case because the people that played it simply sucked at EE
when mod tl was at it's top on aoc it was hardly explored

[ben55]

It took me several years after becoming decent at mod sh / pre sh to get decent at tl setts and especially liga. I'm still learning liga actually. On the other hand, I was in the top tier of gren players pretty much from the first game I played. Gren Wars is the least complex out of all the setts that are played on EE, I don't think you can argue to the contrary without simply discarding logic altogether.

took me 1 full week to be able to beat the shit out of any mod tl player including idiots like lion or hoagy (that guy must be the biggest joke ever)

why don't you just go and read the post i've made in this topic a few days ago? I have explained it to you all pretty locigal so it's just up to you if your willed to get what i mean or not..

I have had god damn good liga, mod tl, mid sh, gren, indy sh, indy dm and so on games and to be honest, in grenwar and mid sh i always turn into a freak because it's simply stress pure while in mod tl this was not the case because the people that played it simply sucked at EE
when mod tl was at it's top on aoc it was hardly explored

Oh no you beat Hoagie!!!! Naming him as a trophy win proves how clueless you are

[Shade]

THIS DISCUSSION MAKES ME HORNY, MY BIG FRIEND DOWN THERE IS GOING CRAZY

[SlipKnoT]

Doing the exact same thing every single game is neither challenging nor exciting. Gren is the only sett I can think of where I can predict exactly how the game will unfold without even starting. 1v1 Grens for example = Standard start > rally rush key hill > hillcamp and boom/mass > push at 15-20 f11 with a hero or do so earlier without one, based on how many grens your enemy has thrown away trying to hit and run a hill (Basically how dumb is your opponent). Same civ same start same strat same age even the same upgrades every single game, i dont see how anyone can find it fun to play more than every once in a while. And the fact that someone experienced in liga can pick up grens after 2-3 games while a gren player would be lost in liga...I think proves something. Its a retarded sett. Just admit it and learn to play mod tl.

i agree with this

[empire2]

It took me several years after becoming decent at mod sh / pre sh to get decent at tl setts and especially liga. I'm still learning liga actually. On the other hand, I was in the top tier of gren players pretty much from the first game I played. Gren Wars is the least complex out of all the setts that are played on EE, I don't think you can argue to the contrary without simply discarding logic altogether.

took me 1 full week to be able to beat the shit out of any mod tl player including idiots like lion or hoagy (that guy must be the biggest joke ever)

why don't you just go and read the post i've made in this topic a few days ago? I have explained it to you all pretty locigal so it's just up to you if your willed to get what i mean or not..

I have had god damn good liga, mod tl, mid sh, gren, indy sh, indy dm and so on games and to be honest, in grenwar and mid sh i always turn into a freak because it's simply stress pure while in mod tl this was not the case because the people that played it simply sucked at EE
when mod tl was at it's top on aoc it was hardly explored

Oh no you beat Hoagie!!!! Naming him as a trophy win proves how clueless you are

I fail to see who else i could list up since there was 98 % complete noobs? driver, nexus, joey, phobia?
same about MID SH but that was even worse
still remember wes starting mod tl on aoc
he was able to beat actually everyone by trying new strats such as super anti tanks + siege only

liga and pre2 have actually been the only settings that have already had a high standard years ago

[uIwehFx]

I really do not agree in this. Liga and pre didnt have a high standart years ago. The lowest stadard of ee was in the first year of ee. 2001 was a horrible year , the peole just started to understand what was acutally possible to do. I really guess 2003-2005/6 probably had the highest standards. Gren became quite new and the people made a set out of it, inadvertently.
You could not believe how good the gren game these days were. An amazing speed, with amazing rushers and boomers. Liga and pre was not really different to the todays liga and pre. But i think everyone agrees when i say that the liga players the days 2003-2005 were just way better than they are today , averagly. After 2005 the number off players in ee drasticly droped. I remember when i logged in and saw that there was only 1 server with around 250 people, i was shocked , couldnt believe it. And not only the number of players droped, the skill level droped with them. Since 2007 and today nothing realy changed. Mod was played the same , liga , pre , tl, mod sh , mid. All the same... The only thing which constantly changes is GREN. Surprised to hear that ??? It is wondering me that the subject of gren is so easy and still is changing. 2008 TuG was aktive and played a nice gren , not as much camping as today , not as much rushing as earlier days. Gren changed all the time and it still changes (e.g Powergrens+ boom ). I dont think that gren will become more exiting as in the rush days, but i really belive that one person with 1 old inew / dea, could change a lot. E.g Abrax / Bail, they had the idea of mass hospitals infront the enemy and wouldnt stop anyoing their enemys with short attacks. NOW everybody does it ! I am really interessted in what comes next...

[empire2]

Good post

Liga and pre was not really different to the todays liga and pre. But i think everyone agrees when i say that the liga players the days 2003-2005 were just way better than they are today , averagly.

I really do not agree in this. Liga and pre didnt have a high standart years ago.

your contradicting yourself here

[uIwehFx]

How ?

[Ghost]

LOL You're comparing Grens, which wasn't even "invented" til about 2006/7, to other game types back in 2001 and over the course of following years. That just shows how little you know about the game and how it has changed (and why it changed).

You might consider those little things like forward hospitals and super grens ON OCCASION large changes to the game of grens, but I can tell you right now that grens is just about the same as it was before. It still has cheaters and the same build order is used. All those little things like super inf was first used in Indy SH, far before grens became popular. In any setting, an experienced, aggressive player will build hospitals at the point of attack. I see this all the time and I never play grens. I was also one of the few to do it when I actually did waste my time in gren games years ago, so to credit it to a couple of TuG noobs (a clan which was also filled with cheaters, no offense to the legit ones, but that clan really has a bad reputation in my eyes) is rather silly. Anything that happens in a game of gren wars was brought in by successful players like myself who played Indy SH and other settings, because you obviously do not understand that grens was built off Indy SH when it was at its peak competitiveness. Anything that has been tried in Grens was tried years and years ago in Indy SH, trust me. That is why you all use a 3 barracks, 12 cits to iron build order -- because we found it to be the best strategy in Indy SH.

Games change on a daily basis and it's because everyone copies anything successful. Today's players learn from yesterday's players. Some changes are more drastic than others, but when you start to argue about whether or not players of the past are "better" than today's players, most don't realize that today's players have built their strategy off the strategy of the old players. At this point in the game, we are coming to the point where strategy is being perfected. Changes we see now are subtle, unlike the early days of EE, when people started rushing in DM, and when people moved from a no settle rush to a one settle rush in Indy TL.

As someone who has played many game types over the course of the years, including my fair share of grens in the "early days" as you might like to call it when everyone had these "almighty gren abilities," I can tell you that you're spewing complete nonsense.

[uIwehFx]

I agree FULLY in your overall point ,ghost.
I really just wanted to say that the statement of empire that players played better in earlier years is just wrong. I mean this topic is still about grens set. And i went to deep into the other sets , i agree. The point i wanted to give is that the todays gren players are not really worse than the others. They are just playing the set more relaxed on boom and micro. I wont really say that this is more skillfull, but how do you want to compare them really, when you dont know if they could rush as well. They probably never try ( which is pathetic ).

[Elite]

I used forward hospitals back when I first started playing EE and was a complete newb, it seemed like the obvious thing to do. Empire you claim to be some hot shit at mod tl I'd like to see it. Being good at mod tl doesn't just entail being able to kill someone with a forward btw.

[Ghost]

I never said the past players were better. In fact what I was implying was that we won't actually know that. You could say that the new players are better because they know the old players' strategy and then some. BUT couldn't you say the old players are better because they made the basis for the new players? And that they could easily adjust? We won't know.

[ben55]

empire2, wes only beat skynet 1v1 with mass at, and skynet is terrible at 1v1 he is good team player, but 1v1 he isn't very good. he also did flamethrower no settle rush that had about a 15% success rate, so i don't even know what you are talking about yea wes is a good liga player, but he wasnt a top tier player at mod tl trust me i played with him all the time, but then again i didn't expect brilliance from your next post after reading the last few just keep on exaggerating and playing devil's advocate to grens it is quite amusing to read =]

as for gren, why the fuck is this topic 7 pages long holy shit are people really that dense, bias or whatever they believe gren is on par with out settings? ya it has it's challenges but it will never be other setts in terms of depth and complexity it can't be it never will be stop trying to argue otherwise you just look stupider each time this topic grows in pages.

[uIwehFx]

ben55 just did a good point. It is just backing me up , this topic is a huge one. Why ? Because you can argue about it , when can you argue about soemthing ? When noone really knows.
And thats just it, noone is in the position to judge over a set, for the public community