NUKES!

For all the off-topic discussion, nonsense, spam, or whatever you want to call it. Post it all down here. WARNING: Entrance may result in drop of IQ.
Captain Nemo
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Re: NUKES!

Post by Captain Nemo »

Again, I'd like this stupid discussion to stop u already do it in all other topics do u really need to do it here?

As for the "relax in so much time technology will have given us a new way" attidude Im actually onboard there. Untill oil is out good you can count on that being our main source of energy for many reasons, one being the companies having such great power they will ensure their own position on top of the energy market for as long as possible. Last thing I heard on fusion was we can do it, but it uses alot more power than it provides at the moment.

So I actually think already we have the technology to run our society without fossil fuels, but oil companies are effectively trying to stop us from going to alternative energy sources. In sweden they run on 50% hydroelectric and 50% nuclear power which is quite impressive I think. Next step is replacing gas in cars with electric ones. They should soon be able to recharge fast enough for that to work out. You work that out and there u are, doesn't sound so very hard. I know the problem in doing so in my own country is ignorance. Nuclear is something everybody dislikes here because they're proud that in the 70'ies they said no thx to nuclear power.

Solar power seems to be a much better option for countries close to the equator in like deserts than in a rainy wet place like this. Wind power can only give us so much, I believe it's somewhere around 20% for Denmark. Whenever we try to put more windmills up we face the problem of angry neighbourghs :/ SUPER annoying people who are afriad they will be noisy. But hey they don't complain when a new road is set up. Hydroelectric is not an option for us. So it seems like Nuclear is the option right now and for the not so distant future. Geothermal is much too far down here aswell. So we need nuclear power end of the story and Im glad there are some reasonable fellas out there who aren't like "oh no it WILL KILL US".

As for your post indica I simply don't get your point, are u the new eeralf? You wanna discuss what we don't know yet? Fusion is by many concidered the future in energy, and u're welcome to put ur hopes on that but I think we're decades from a breakthrough there.
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[-Ts-] Tricky
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Re: NUKES!

Post by [-Ts-] Tricky »

2012 yellow stone kills us all gg no re hihi
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Trichome Indica
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Re: NUKES!

Post by Trichome Indica »

So it's 15/02/2012 and Fukushima still burns. Allmost a year now. Dangerous levels of radiation and it's by-products found in milk, water, food and soil in North America, and around the world.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryfXIbPc ... gpf0U_h4Eo
Daily nuclear plant disturbances and toxic releases worldwide but nuclear energy is good? It must be cool ye 8) The "in" thing because the leader said so.
It seems to me that people who are contributing in this post have no idea how radiation affects Humans because if they did..... I suggest that it is very important to understand how this will affect all of us as we are all victims of it ; assuming you are Human and living on planet Earth of coarse.
http://hss.energy.gov/healthsafety/ohre ... o_9_5.html
Captain Nemo wrote:As for your post indica I simply don't get your point,
So when i began to research "free energy" my investigations led me to a vast amount of information which i previously wasn't aware of. It seems to me that due to the fact that you, me and many others have/had no idea that this information or technology exists ; confirms the obvious that indeed this technological information had been buried deep and suppressed. Initially, when i discovered this i became quite angry for being lied to, manipulated and robbed of these miracles.
I can assume that your lack of knowledge of any of the other alternative energy sources is a direct result of improper / or lack of research or investigation. But seeing that this topic is regarding "Nukes" I suppose you would have no need to conduct research or investigate the possibilities other than for your own personal gain and knowledge, i would suggest you do that as it is a wonderful learning experience, or it was for me anyway.

This video is a mind opener-Good luck on your journey of truth and knowledge. I will create a separate post in the near future to share what i have learned regarding suppressed free energy technologies. It will simply blow your mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fPJ71kzPz8

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You chose - Unlimited free energy for every soul on the planet or ;
Pay Corporations money for energy so they can control and destroy us, and our planet.
Peace :mrgreen:
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Captain Nemo
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Re: NUKES!

Post by Captain Nemo »

You fail to address all my points basically. Why don't you teach me of this free energy you speak of, no need for me to search for it then.

Fukushima is a big disaster yes, but one that could easially be avoided in the future, with some security ups as I suggested in my post. And as big a disaster this Fukushima is the death count is... what? Not so much that Japan can't put aside a few millions earmarked for the cleanup after the big disaster, to send a coast guard vessel along with their whaling fleet to the antarctica.

And please enlighten me, how does radiation affect human beings?
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lightnessking.
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Re: NUKES!

Post by lightnessking. »

Captain Nemo wrote: And please enlighten me, how does radiation affect human beings?
Radiation kills your cells if you absorb too much.
You cannot make another post so soon after your last.

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Trichome Indica
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Re: NUKES!

Post by Trichome Indica »

Captain Nemo wrote:

And please enlighten me, how does radiation affect human beings?
I provided a link does it not work ? Or would you like me to click that link and read it for you also ? Ok.

Click & presto......

How Does Radiation Affect Humans?

Radiation may come from either an external source, such as an x-ray machine, or an internal source, such as an injected radioisotope. The impact of radiation on living tissue is complicated by the type of radiation and the variety of tissues. In addition, the effects of radiation are not always easy to separate from other factors, making it a challenge at times for scientists to isolate them. An overview may help explain not only the effects of radiation but also the motivation for studying them, which led to much of the research examined by the Advisory Committee.
What effect can ionizing radiation have on chemical bonds?

The functions of living tissue are carried out by molecules, that is, combinations of different types of atoms united by chemical bonds. Some of these molecules can be quite large. The proper functioning of these molecules depends upon their composition and also their structure (shape). Altering chemical bonds may change composition or structure. Ionizing radiation is powerful enough to do this. For example, a typical ionization releases six to seven times the energy needed to break the chemical bond between two carbon atoms.[91] This ability to disrupt chemical bonds means that ionizing radiation focuses its impact in a very small but crucial area, a bit like a karate master focusing energy to break a brick. The same amount of raw energy, distributed more broadly in nonionizing form, would have much less effect. For example, the amount of energy in a lethal dose of ionizing radiation is roughly equal to the amount of thermal energy in a single sip of hot coffee.[92] The crucial difference is that the coffee's energy is broadly distributed in the form of nonionizing heat, while the radiation's energy is concentrated in a form that can ionize.
What is DNA?

Of all the molecules in the body, the most crucial is DNA (deoxyribose nucleic acid), the fundamental blueprint for all of the body's structures. The DNA blueprint is encoded in each cell as a long sequence of small molecules, linked together into a chain, much like the letters in a telegram. DNA molecules are enormously long chains of atoms wound around proteins and packed into structures called chromosomes within the cell nucleus. When unwound, the DNA in a single human cell would be more than 2 meters long. It normally exists as twenty-three pairs of chromosomes packed within the cell nucleus, which itself has a diameter of only 10 micrometers (0.00001 meter).[93] Only a small part of this DNA needs to be read at any one time to build a specific molecule. Each cell is continually reading various parts of its own DNA as it constructs fresh molecules to perform a variety of tasks. It is worth remembering that the structure of DNA was not solved until 1953, nine years after the beginning of the period studied by the Advisory Committee. We now have a much clearer picture of what happens within a cell than did the scientists of 1944.
What effect can ionizing radiation have on DNA?

Ionizing radiation, by definition, "ionizes," that is, it pushes an electron out of its orbit around an atomic nucleus, causing the formation of electrical charges on atoms or molecules. If this electron comes from the DNA itself or from a neighboring molecule and directly strikes and disrupts the DNA molecule, the effect is called direct action. This initial ionization takes place very quickly, in about 0.000000000000001 of a second. However, today it is estimated that about two-thirds of the damage caused by x rays is due to indirect action. This occurs when the liberated electron does not directly strike the DNA, but instead strikes an ordinary water molecule. This ionizes the water molecule, eventually producing what is known as a free radical. A free radical reacts very strongly with other molecules as it seeks to restore a stable configuration of electrons. A free radical may drift about up to 10,000,000,000 times longer than the time needed for the initial ionization (this is still a very short time, about 0.00001 of a second), increasing the chance of it disrupting the crucial DNA molecule. This also increases the possibility that other substances could be introduced that would neutralize free radicals before they do damage.[94]
Neutrons act quite differently. A fast neutron will bypass orbiting electrons and occasionally crash directly into an atomic nucleus, knocking out large particles such as alpha particles, protons, or larger fragments of the nucleus. The most common collisions are with carbon or oxygen nuclei. The particles created will themselves then set about ionizing nearby electrons. A slow neutron will not have the energy to knock out large particles when it strikes a nucleus. Instead, the neutron and the nucleus will bounce off each other, like billiard balls. In so doing, the neutron will slow down, and the nucleus will gain speed. The most common collision is with a hydrogen nucleus, a proton that can excite or ionize electrons in nearby atoms.[95]

What immediate effects can ionizing radiation have on living cells?

All of these collisions and ionizations take place very quickly, in less than a second. It takes much longer for the biological effects to become apparent. If the damage is sufficient to kill the cell, the effect may become noticeable in hours or days. Cell "death" can be of two types. First, the cell may no longer perform its function due to internal ionization; this requires a dose to the cell of about 100 gray (10,000 rad). (For a definition of gray and rad, see the section below titled "How Do We Measure the Biological Effects of Radiation?") Second, "reproductive death" (mitotic inhibition) may occur when a cell can no longer reproduce, but still performs its other functions. This requires a dose of 2 gray (200 rad), which will cause reproductive death in half the cells irradiated (hence such a quantity is called a "mean lethal dose.")[96] Today we still lack enough information to choose among the various models proposed to explain cell death in terms of what happens at the level of atoms and molecules inside a cell.[97] If enough crucial cells within the body totally cease to function, the effect is fatal. Death may also result if cell reproduction ceases in parts of the body where cells are continuously being replaced at a high rate (such as the blood cell-forming tissues and the lining of the intestinal tract). A very high dose of 100 gray (10,000 rad) to the entire body causes death within twenty-four to forty-eight hours; a whole-body dose of 2.5 to 5 gray (250 to 500 rad) may produce death within several weeks.[98] At lower or more localized doses, the effect will not be death, but specific symptoms due to the loss of a large number of cells. These effects were once called nonstochastic; they are now called deterministic.[99] A beta burn is an example of a deterministic effect.
What long-term effects can radiation have?

The effect of the radiation may not be to kill the cell, but to alter its DNA code in a way that leaves the cell alive but with an error in the DNA blueprint. The effect of this mutation will depend on the nature of the error and when it is read. Since this is a random process, such effects are now called stochastic.[100] Two important stochastic effects of radiation are cancer, which results from mutations in nongerm cells (termed somatic cells), and heritable changes, which result from mutations in germ cells (eggs and sperm).
How can ionizing radiation cause cancer?

Cancer is produced if radiation does not kill the cell but creates an error in the DNA blueprint that contributes to eventual loss of control of cell division, and the cell begins dividing uncontrollably. This effect might not appear for many years. Cancers induced by radiation do not differ from cancers due to other causes, so there is no simple way to measure the rate of cancer due to radiation. During the period studied by the Advisory Committee, great effort was devoted to studies of irradiated animals and exposed groups of people to develop better estimates of the risk of cancer due to radiation. This type of research is complicated by the variety of cancers, which vary in radiosensitivity. For example, bone marrow is more sensitive than skin cells to radiation-induced cancer.[101]
Large doses of radiation to large numbers of people are needed in order to cause measurable increases in the number of cancers and thus determine the differences in the sensitivity of different organs to radiation. Because the cancers can occur anytime in the exposed person's lifetime, these studies can take seventy years or more to complete. For example, the largest and scientifically most valuable epidemiologic study of radiation effects has been the ongoing study of the Japanese atomic bomb survivors. Other important studies include studies of large groups exposed to radiation as a consequence of their occupation (such as uranium miners) or as a consequence of medical treatment. These types of studies are discussed in greater detail in the section titled "How Do Scientists Determine the Long-Term Risks from Radiation?"

How can ionizing radiation produce genetic mutations?

Radiation may alter the DNA within any cell. Cell damage and death that result from mutations in somatic cells occur only in the organism in which the mutation occurred and are therefore termed somatic or nonheritable effects. Cancer is the most notable long-term somatic effect. In contrast, mutations that occur in germ cells (sperm and ova) can be transmitted to future generations and are therefore called genetic or heritable effects. Genetic effects may not appear until many generations later. The genetic effects of radiation were first demonstrated in fruit flies in the 1920s. Genetic mutation due to radiation does not produce the visible monstrosities of science fiction; it simply produces a greater frequency of the same mutations that occur continuously and spontaneously in nature.
Like cancers, the genetic effects of radiation are impossible to distinguish from mutations due to other causes. Today at least 1,300 diseases are known to be caused by a mutation.[102] Some mutations may be beneficial; random mutation is the driving force in evolution. During the period studied by the Advisory Committee, there was considerable debate among the scientific community over both the extent and the consequences of radiation-induced mutations. In contrast to estimates of cancer risk, which are based in part on studies of human populations, estimates of heritable risk are based for the most part upon animal studies plus studies of Japanese survivors of the atomic bombs.

The risk of genetic mutation is expressed in terms of the doubling dose: the amount of radiation that would cause additional mutations equal in number to those that already occur naturally from all causes, thereby doubling the naturally occurring rate of mutation.

It is generally believed that mutation rates depend linearly on dose and that there is no threshold below which mutation rates would not be increased. Spontaneous mutation (unrelated to radiation) occurs naturally at a rate of approximately 1/10,000 to 1/1,000,000 cell divisions per gene, with wide variation from one gene to another.

Attempts have been made to estimate the contribution of ionizing radiation to human mutation rates by studying offspring of both exposed and nonexposed Japanese atomic bomb survivors. These estimates are based on comparisons of the rate of various congenital defects and cancer between exposed and nonexposed survivors, as well as on direct counting of mutations at a small number of genes. For all these endpoints, no excess has been observed among descendants of the exposed survivors.

Given this lack of direct evidence of any increase in human heritable (genetic) effects resulting from radiation exposure, the estimates of genetic risks in humans have been compared with experimental data obtained with laboratory animals. However, estimates of human genetic risks vary greatly from animal data. For example, fruit flies have very large chromosomes that appear to be uniquely susceptible to radiation. Humans may be less vulnerable than previously thought. Statistical lower limits on the doubling dose have been calculated that are compatible with the observed human data. Based on our inability to demonstrate an effect in humans, the lower limit for the genetic doubling dose is thought to be less than 100 rem.[104]
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Captain Nemo
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Re: NUKES!

Post by Captain Nemo »

nah Ill check ur link soon. But theres a limit to how much time I wanna spend on topics so it better not be too long :)
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Re: NUKES!

Post by Captain Nemo »

Allright read it, nothing surprising there. Yet it states a dose of 250-500 rads will kill u in like 7 weeks and according to your map the entire yellow area is "750 rads". What kind of concentration is that?

And Im still counting on u to find a deathcount of the damage from the Fukushima for me (those who died from radiation).
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Re: NUKES!

Post by d-dog »

lightnessking wrote:
Captain Nemo wrote: And please enlighten me, how does radiation affect human beings?
Radiation kills your cells if you absorb too much.
Captain Nemo wrote:Allright read it, nothing surprising there. Yet it states a dose of 250-500 rads will kill u in like 7 weeks and according to your map the entire yellow area is "750 rads". What kind of concentration is that?

And Im still counting on u to find a deathcount of the damage from the Fukushima for me (those who died from radiation).
Seriously, wtf am I reading here. "Radiation kills cells" "dose of 250-500 rads"
Wtf are you guys talking about, radiation doesn't actually exist in the physical world. It's more of a concept. Heat is a type of radiation, hence, why 'heat' doesn't technically exist. We do observe the effects of heat transfer from temperature rises/falls until thermal equilibrium is reached though. But 'heat' is just a form of energy transfer (radiation).

Basically what you guys just said was 'the way energy is transfered can kill you'. Which means absolutely nothing.

But to answer your question, "750 rads". What kind of concentration is that? I don't know, a 'rad' isn't a unit of measurement. Unless a 'rad' is kind of like what they do for hurricans and shit, "category 5" etc, which I think is just a ballpark range of what the wind speed is, and some other factors. They don't say what they are though.
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lightnessking.
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Re: NUKES!

Post by lightnessking. »

In easier language: Radiation kills your cells if you absorb too much. If this is false please post the evidence as I'm 99,9% sure.
You cannot make another post so soon after your last.

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Re: NUKES!

Post by DrHouseMd »

Radition from the heat from vent is killing my cells as we speak!

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Re: NUKES!

Post by d-dog »

lightnessking wrote:In easier language: Radiation kills your cells if you absorb too much. If this is false please post the evidence as I'm 99,9% sure.
Your 99.9% wrong. Radiation is a way of transferring energy. Nuclear radiation, which causes cancer, are alpha/beta particles or gamma rays that transfer their energy via radiation to kill cells. The energy from the particles or rays are causing the cancer, not how the energy is transfered to the cells (radiation).
DrHouseMd wrote:Radition from the heat from vent is killing my cells as we speak!
No. Heat is a form of radiation. You don't call it heat radiation thought, just heat. Your body has a lower temperature than the air from the vent, in order to establish thermal equilibrium between you and the vent, energy is transferred via Heat to raise your body's temperature. You perceive this temperature difference as "hot", not heat.

In easier language:
Change in Energy = Energy transfered
The keyword in that equation is change.
If you don't want cancer, you don't want energy transfered (via radiation) to your body to kill cells. So we know that Energy transferred=0
So, Energy Final = Energy Initial
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lightnessking.
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Re: NUKES!

Post by lightnessking. »

True, tho the topic says NUKES! So I kinda figured you would understand that I was talking about nuclear radiation.
You cannot make another post so soon after your last.

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Re: NUKES!

Post by DrHouseMd »

d-dog is actually right. Even though he didnt catch my troll comment. He's a smart cat.

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Re: NUKES!

Post by Captain Nemo »

d-dog wrote:
lightnessking wrote:
Captain Nemo wrote: And please enlighten me, how does radiation affect human beings?
Radiation kills your cells if you absorb too much.
Captain Nemo wrote:Allright read it, nothing surprising there. Yet it states a dose of 250-500 rads will kill u in like 7 weeks and according to your map the entire yellow area is "750 rads". What kind of concentration is that?

And Im still counting on u to find a deathcount of the damage from the Fukushima for me (those who died from radiation).
Seriously, wtf am I reading here. "Radiation kills cells" "dose of 250-500 rads"
Wtf are you guys talking about, radiation doesn't actually exist in the physical world. It's more of a concept. Heat is a type of radiation, hence, why 'heat' doesn't technically exist. We do observe the effects of heat transfer from temperature rises/falls until thermal equilibrium is reached though. But 'heat' is just a form of energy transfer (radiation).

Basically what you guys just said was 'the way energy is transfered can kill you'. Which means absolutely nothing.

But to answer your question, "750 rads". What kind of concentration is that? I don't know, a 'rad' isn't a unit of measurement. Unless a 'rad' is kind of like what they do for hurricans and shit, "category 5" etc, which I think is just a ballpark range of what the wind speed is, and some other factors. They don't say what they are though.
When u say energy transferred do u mean from one place to another? Cause from what I can read here u don't mean from one form to another which would normally be the thing u mean when u say energy transfer. A stone flying through the air is radiation too then? It meets your requirements and if it hits u it will cause alot of damage. As with radiation if it hits you the energy it has will hit you and depending on the amount of energy it can damage you.

As for the stuff you said with heat from the vent you recieve as "hot" or something like that Im not sure u get what heat is. As you describe heat as something that is transferred in the air and hotness as something u feel well no its actually the same its the speed of molecules's movements. The molekyles outside your body move faster than yours in the body vibrate/"swim" and thus they "push" your molekyles in the body to vibrate more and hence raising the temperature there. As you may know it's hard for "flying molecules" (gas form) to do much with vibrating ones or liquid which is why the heat capacity of gas isn't very high. If you're thrown into boiling water the damage would be much more catastrocfic.

Ionizing radiation is not the same as heat, and causes different type of damage if u're exposed to high levels of it. Cell death from ionizing radiation may not even be the worst at least on a long term scale as cell mutation can cause cancer which might be a bigger concern to you.

My point in this fukushima discussion is though, how big a disaster was it really?
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