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Re: mod no rush
Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:23 pm
by bosshaft
it was a clear defeat, its impossible to do something against ~ 40 tridents with fighters to protect them.
i have to be fair and say gg, no chance.
my air was strong and i hit your base twice, but no chance
Re: mod no rush
Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:33 pm
by Arntzen
Captain Nemo wrote:2v2 large map large islands as requested. they were both air with some siege at least on my side. Omega was all fighters and I was all navy.
This is not what I've been argueing against.. First of all not that big map. Secound of all you and omega been talking so highly about your sea aa, and omega used fighters as his last example of what could be good to do as if everything else would be better.. So maybe I missunderstood but it really sounded like wing siege/navi and pocket full navy.. Going navi+full fighter on 2v2 large map large Islands should be easy win vs double air lmao. This is only proof that bosshaft was wrong..
Re: mod no rush
Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:46 pm
by Omega
Good game guys. You fought valiantly!
Kazter, I'm pretty sure I've been fairly clear all along that the optimal strat is:
- One dude with Carriers (F-14) and F-15s.
- One dude with navy.
Both can make some siege or prophets as-needed. Both can make AA and Flaks on their island as-needed too.
Sea-AA is still damn good. You don't make zero Sea-AA, because it's good
Re: mod no rush
Posted: Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:55 pm
by Captain Nemo
I've been working with a 2v2 strat all the time too with one doing fighters other doing navy. Sorry if that didn't come through. I did say that in my 2nd or 3rd post in the topic tho.
The fighters are not only for protection against air. In case they're overly much air and no fleet it'll be sort of an easy game(sorry), but their purpose is really against enemy navy. F14 are MUCH better against navy than bombers, they only cost 48/48. You said something very condescending to those poor F-14
They really rock.
Re: mod no rush
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:21 pm
by ben77
I was really just confused because Nemo seemed to be saying that cruisers alone would dominate bombers. Obviously Navy + Mass F14/15 is going to be very effective. Also I somehow suspect that the guys you played against were not the best adversaries you could have found. At least Pierre didn't crash right?
Whenever I played modern islands and went navy I think I made a point to take at least fighter attack + speed, hp if possible. 6 or 12 points that gives you the option of massing F14 or F15 ontop of your sub/frigate/cruiser blob is obviously pretty attractive.
Re: mod no rush
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:02 pm
by Captain Nemo
The main point is: bombers are useless. One bombraid may kill alot but it takes waaaay too long to build up such a force, whereas you can remake your fleet fairly quickly and nuke subs will continue to shoot throughout the game. No attempt was made to bomb my fleet anyway all bombraids were focused on my island where it killed alot of AA that took 5f11 to remake.
On another note I think religion makes it a stupid set. The defense is waaaay too strong even in tournament. Mod dm islands no reli is alot more fun imo.
Re: mod no rush
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:31 pm
by BigRon
Pierre and I did what we've always done in Nr 60f11 games which works pretty well WITHOUT subnukes.
Nemo had 50 tridents on his coast guarded by mass fighters, cruisers and temples, there's nothing you can do about that ONLY if you have a counter civ and even then its going to be more than hard.
We thought mass bombers are superior but we were proven wrong. I guess thats why all the no rush 60f11 games before were called NO SUBNUKES, lol.
Re: mod no rush
Posted: Sun Jul 21, 2013 4:34 pm
by bosshaft
ben77 wrote:I was really just confused because Nemo seemed to be saying that cruisers alone would dominate bombers. Obviously Navy + Mass F14/15 is going to be very effective. Also I somehow suspect that the guys you played against were not the best adversaries you could have found. At least Pierre didn't crash right?
Whenever I played modern islands and went navy I think I made a point to take at least fighter attack + speed, hp if possible. 6 or 12 points that gives you the option of massing F14 or F15 ontop of your sub/frigate/cruiser blob is obviously pretty attractive.
who the fuck are u talking like this? i was back in 2005 in the --[[Gladiatoren]]-- clan which were together with the {KING} clan the best no rush players, and u talk some bullshit like "the best adversaries you could find"
despite that u are correct, navy + mass f14/15 is unstoppable, only navy will be (easy) killed with air
Re: mod no rush
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:29 am
by Lancelot5
Would be nice when ec soriano and moroz would have played vs omega and nemo. As far as i know they are like the best players when it comes to air on islands.
Re: mod no rush
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:32 pm
by Arntzen
OK FTW OMG etcetc I just found out nukes are still 20000 attack on aoc and you're saying not to use them?
Re: mod no rush
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 3:23 pm
by Omega
Inner Troll wrote:OH YEAH KAZTER?!? WELL I THINK LONG BOWS IN MID STILL HAVE +3 ATTACK, ARE YOU SAYING NOT TO USE THEM VERSUS TEXAS RANGER IF HE HAS SWORDS AND BALISTAS!?!?!?!
Re: mod no rush
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:56 pm
by Arntzen
whittiphokkk?!?!?!?! 20k attack is uber OP. Me and sori want that 2v2 (wing/pocket vs wing/pocket)..
Re: mod no rush
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:02 pm
by Captain Nemo
kaz have u even played a 4v4 60f11 mod islands?
Re: mod no rush
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:09 pm
by Omega
Kazter, I'm going to update the patch in a month with Nukes on AoC that have 100k attack.
If 20k is OP, then surely, 100k must be worse, right?
Or maybe, just maybe, we need to consider what the actual change in effect is instead of considering the change in numbers. Take a function of x as an example. What's the difference between an input of 100 and an input of 10**500? Depends on the function; for some functions there will be zero difference.
Re: mod no rush
Posted: Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:11 pm
by Arntzen
not 4v4.
@megs
20k attack on nukes is reason no one plays p2s island