mid dm no siege/religion - knight rush

[P-51]

This civ is best on wing in 3v3 and 4v4 when you have a pocket to save your ass in case you are epicly countered (you will get r1pped by straight cav archers) but it can be good in any game, even in no rules. The build time decrease on your buildings is important for a quick rush because you will want your Temple of Zeus up before the opposing wing. Try to get your rush in before 3:30 when the enemy is least organized.
Upgrade 2 attack, 2 hit point, and 2 pierce armor.

[taco]

i dont understand y u upgrade 2 pierce instead of speed, i would assume 1 of knights strenghs is thier speed and the ability to get in amounst an enermy quickly taking little damage, the zues and the spread of damage amoust the group of knights is enough defence i would think. with such little gain being extra defence against knights or pikes. i understand that its a signifigant amount of defence when having knights fight agaisnt each other, however in aa 3v3 or 4v4 this is not going to happen often as u will almost never have a partner which doesnt use ca or lbs to counter the knights.
just wanna know ur thoughts behind the madness.

[flurbaturb]

The short-sighted and foolish will clearly want to knock your suggestion of a pierce armor upgrade.

But this is however a place of learning, so we should address their concerns with as much respect as we can muster. It does no good to belittle, harangue, or otherwise humiliated an innocent novice who has a question about the game. And after-all here is one of the oldest questions in the history of Middle Death Match no religion no siege Empire Earth the Art of Conquest.

Age old dilemma: Speed or Pierce armor on knights?

We can start with a list of pros and cons.

Pros:
Speed:
1. Allows you to run away quicker once you lose.

Pierce Armor:
1. Pilums: PWNED.
2. Persians: PWNED.
3 Pikes: PWNED!!!!
4 Knights: om nom nom nom nom.
5. Makes them look more badass.
Cons
Speed:

1. Dangerous, can get yourself into trouble before you know whats happening, freeways have speed-limits for a reason.
2. Self-defeatist morale. When you have an army that is basically built for running away squealing like a little sissy, you will be going into battle with the wrong state of mind. You need to be confident, and commit yourself to strong victory!
3. Moving over your screen too fast, its easy to lose count and hard to lasso your troops!

Pierce armor:

None to speak of.


Conclusion:
Now you see taking an indifferent logical perspective on the matter we have come to the superior option. All too often young players act rashly on instincts or "hunches." True power lies with self control of the mind body and spirit.

[taco]

pahaps u dont understand, knights already "pwn" most of those units, with the exception of pikes which if they did have them upgraded in civ would die for being that stupid, if not they would already die without the need of piece armour.

im not a fool, nor am i anything close to being short sighted, if anything u have been.
from the sounds of it ur 1 of those people who rush swords in middle with full att full hp full amour and wonder how they get thier asses ripped open by some1 who has only speed. speed is a BIG deal, and i argue its importance with melee units.
speed allows u to take less damage by taking less time getting into the battle, this on the same point allows u to hit ur enermie more times b4 ur knight will die, if need be u can run away from battle, wihtout getting alot of ur units picked off.
2 already very good reasons y speed wins over amour.

as for amour making them look badass, i use2 laugh at ppl who used amour in midsh, only thing i use2 think is that they were noobs and guess what, i was right. im not saying thats the case for mid dm, as i can c it being more important, however i dont see it EVER taking the place of speed, unless u no for sure that the enermy is going knights, in which case y would take the chance and go knights?

[P-51]

i dont understand y u upgrade 2 pierce instead of speed, i would assume 1 of knights strenghs is thier speed and the ability to get in amounst an enermy quickly taking little damage, the zues and the spread of damage amoust the group of knights is enough defence i would think. with such little gain being extra defence against knights or pikes. i understand that its a signifigant amount of defence when having knights fight agaisnt each other, however in aa 3v3 or 4v4 this is not going to happen often as u will almost never have a partner which doesnt use ca or lbs to counter the knights.
just wanna know ur thoughts behind the madness.

The speed really doesn't make much of a difference. The +3 speed in the civ is enough. I would rather have the extra pierce armor because that will help you more in a knight vs knight battle than +5 speed will. Knights will always be screwed against cav archers and they can overtake longbows pretty easily without the +5 speed. I always found +5 speed to be pretty useless.

[taco]

i can c where ur coming from knights on knights it does play a signifigant role. however u should have already identified whether they are using knights very early on. i would only, and i mean only ever trade speed for that 1 purpose. ca might beat knights, but knights do rather well when there amounst the ca, and not taking a signifigant amount of damage getting there, this is were speed helps, speed helps getting out of those situations, helps in aiding other players, if the opponent has ca its 50/50 chance they have speed in civ and will up 1 in game, so they will be able to outrun u, pick u off, and hit n run u, i dont want to b the knight player on the recieving end of that. i would much rather keeping the same speed as them, if not more.(not suggesting 16+6).
other things thatm ight b worth noting, civ points on amour could provide basic cata ups, to mix with knights and with ur hero zues, would be a great meat shield against ur counter.(i believe u could get cata speed amrour, and meyb hp).

[flurbaturb]

Yes of course knights already do "pwn" these units, namely Pilums and Persian Cavalry. But a true master is never satisfied with merely "pwn" when it could have PWN!!!! That is to say a true master will stock up on every advantage he can gather. Which is why I would recommend also upgrading shock armor to 10+5.

It is said by the ancient Chinese general Lao Tsang, "it is supreme strategy to first make yourself invincible then wait for your enemy to show you an entry and expose himself to attack..."

Knights with 15 shock armor and a temple of Zeus would indeed be virtually invincible against even 100 times as many vikings. And since many players vastly underestimate the power of the viking(a topic for another article), they will leave these units in mere garrison roles. That's when your raiding party of elite armored knights come in to pillage their towns.

Likewise barbarians and cataphracts will be dispatched easily. And swords, the knight's arch rival, will be completely dominated.

As you see armor is completely superior to speed in every way. The novice may move his troops around the map many times, but the expert moves only once.

[taco]

u rant on about what the knights are good against, how ab out u give us ur opinion on how this "elite armour" can help against something the knights need help against, like i donno ca. its great to slaughter something more that u would of already slaughted, however it is pointless when u havent covered all your bases.

[flurbaturb]

Ah taco, taco, taco. You have a lot to learn .

If it is God's will that the enemy must have archers then so be it.
If this is one's fight it is best to accept it like a man.

A warrior must be at peace within his body and spirit: always prepared to face death.

But yet it is true we must not resign ourselves to destiny passively, but march confidently and determined into the unknown! Who are we to wonder at the mysterious designs of the Almighty Creator.

I believe armor will increase your own morale in the face of such a perilous threat as archers, and strike fear into the hear of the enemy. Secondly the units they have mixed in with their archers will do less damage to you, hence leaving more HP to withstand the the slings and arrows of fortune. Speed affords no added bonus but the dubious one of quick retreat. Retreat, however, is a temporary measure.

All our armies must be roam no further than the confines of the map, as our lives must stray no further the path of destiny laid out for us by Divine Wisdom.

[taco]

okay i was giving u a chance to give a real answer, i now understand that u are just retarded and offer no valid input. there is little left for me to learn about mid, from my understand there is alot for you to learn about it.
for arguement sake, if they pure counter you, why would they mix other units in which u would beat?
speed has many bonuses assosiated with it. u will NOT ever see a great sword rusher have +0 speed upgrade or +2. a few of those advantages are listed above in my previous posts, there are however more such as ecoing(still a good idea in long dm games) raping there mili buildings and wonders, and at the very least the convienience factor of being able to respond to some threat as quick as u can instead of the threat getting much worse.

[Ghost]

Taco just got looked at with this face:

[P-51]

okay i was giving u a chance to give a real answer, i now understand that u are just retarded and offer no valid input. there is little left for me to learn about mid, from my understand there is alot for you to learn about it.
for arguement sake, if they pure counter you, why would they mix other units in which u would beat?
speed has many bonuses assosiated with it. u will NOT ever see a great sword rusher have +0 speed upgrade or +2. a few of those advantages are listed above in my previous posts, there are however more such as ecoing(still a good idea in long dm games) raping there mili buildings and wonders, and at the very least the convienience factor of being able to respond to some threat as quick as u can instead of the threat getting much worse.

Its different with swords because they have different uses than knights. No matter how fast your knights are, they will never have a chance at beating cav archers so its better to have the pierce armor where it actually has a chance of helping you.

[taco]

Taco just got looked at with this face:

indeed.

[Zeus]

I upgrade speed on mine. I've beaten people with my counter plenty of times. I find with speed, not only for the wonder rape strat as taco said to weaken them as is, then as long as you are quick with the snipe, you can hero rape very easily. Knights with speed consume the hero and there is almost no escape. No Zeus+No Hero+rush=Pwned. Then in no rules throw some prophs in there and plague them and its game.