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[Manni]

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[Omega]

First, only considering 1 vs 1 fights for units is naive, simplistic, and downright stupid. If you want to get any idea of how good a unit actually is, you need to test the unit in MANY different situations, including various even-numbered fights, various even-population fights (populating is a limiting factor in very long games), and various cost-matched fights. Obviously, when I say various, I mean at different scales, such as in the simplest example... 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2, 3 vs 3, 4 vs 4, 5 vs 5, 7 vs 7, 10 vs 10, 15 vs 15, 20 vs 20, and 25 vs 25. Each instance also needs to be replicated multiple times--with differently placed units,to account for assorted factors. Furthermore, in testing in the scenario editor, the computer can't micro, so YOU CAN'T EITHER, and additionally, the computer should always control the ranged unit, whereas you always control the melee unit, for results that are most similar to a no-micro encounter in reality. Obviously, you need to know how micro will change things as well, but it's fairly easy to make a very accurate educated guess.

Now that we've established how insanely bad your testing methodology was, meaning all of your results are INSANELY unreliable (by your methodology, we would conclude that Zeus cybers win versus Guardians... which is true on a numbers and population-limiting basis, but on a cost basis, Zeus gets totally and utterly destroyed, and furthermore, until we hit a pop-limiting situation, the degree to which guardians omgwtfpwn SCALES UPWARDS), we can consider what you're actually saying which is...

Why are Pilums unchanged? Wait, did you ask this question? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT MANNI?

Why are Long bows unchanged? Wait, another question like this? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT MANNI?

As to why Composite bows are unchanged... The reason is fairly simple. No one plays Dark age as Dark age, except Citybuilder players who care nothing for balance. And... Dark age in liga will be dominated by persians and catas... And obviously, composite bows don't matter much for p2s either... And the only time Dark age was ever seriously played as a setting, no one would ever think of making composite bows even if you doubled their hp and attack.

[P-51]

Hey just because you niggas don't play dark age don't mean no one else play it.

[Manni]

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[Omega]

First, you failed to take my hint. If you had ever paid attention to anything, you will have noticed that both pilums and long bows got a buff in the 1.1d patch, which has carried over through all the subsequent patches, right up to the current patch.

Second, the insane badness of your testing strategy still stands. Not only have your posts not demonstrated you have any understanding of how to do it, but they haven't even demonstrated you know the designers of the game attempted to balance things based on cost, not on even fights. Hell, I even remember giving an example in my previous about say, testing 1 zeus versus 1 guardian... Hmm...

Third, you'll notice that Bronze age foot archers are identical to Copper age foot archers. Units that are 1 epoch below the current epoch units are SUPPOSED to be inferior. You'll notice that Dark age isn't played, and in the avenues it is played as a competitive gametype, is wholly degenerate due to persians and cataphracts (and the only way to really change that would be to make some large changes to all units available in dark age, which would then necessitate changes that scaled to middle age and bronze age at the very least, and possibly a few minor changes to copper age and Renaissance to smooth out certain disparities created by the major dark aged changes... Which is to say, Dark age is too damn degenerate for me to put any time into fixing it). And of course, as already mentioned, long bows got a buff already, it's just that based on the nature of the game, foot archers will always be inferior to cavalry archers, unless foot archers are overpowered. And of course, it sounds like you're testing this shit 1 foot archer vs 1 cavalry archer, which is utterly retarded, and not testing based on some more reasonable criterion, like cost or pop cap, because if you tested on those you'd find that AT LEAST foot archers had equal power, or just totally raped depending on the criterion and the test scale.

Fourth, pilums... Their niche as a standalone unit is simply way too narrow for them to be viable if they're not overpowered. You clearly think they should be overpowered. Of course, pilums are shit as a standalone unit, but viable as a stopgap unit, given that if you're making archers of any variety, you can quickly and easily produce some pilums as a supplement... So, they work fantastically as a supplemental contingency unit that you'll eventually move away from producing later on, which is really all they need to be. And if you make them extremely good against swords, you'll just shift the entire mid sh metagame away from swords, which will totally fuck shit up, and lead to a very different (and probably degenerate) new metagame, possibly making middle as "fun" as dark age due to unit variety.

[Manni]

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[herik]

First u fail much manni, ive won plenty of games with bows and pilums, u need to learn to play games without relying on exp for one thing. 2nd of all if u know how to micro, u wreck any1 that trys to oppose you.

hey omega, do u think we can get more pop like game ranger? doesnt even have to be 4k limit, but for 4v4 games, theres just not enuf pop for a seriously long good game.(if teams are even).

[herik]

LMAO, i just read a bit of ures omega, I see i wrote basicaly some of the things u did , Manni please learn.