My opinion of the people who can give good games

[Arntzen]

I guess only way to convince anyone is if one of them said that the other one is better.. Aka there is no convincing you either.
I think everyone has 1 or 2 guys they think is "WTF THE BEST EVER". Some say Epic, U say Krass, I say Ras, Ras say ViE_BE and the list goes on.

[Samuel]

I will soon open a topic with a ranking of the best Liga 1v1 players I have played with, along with a detailed description regarding each player.

[Arntzen]

Nice, looking forward to reading that

[ben55]

Well your reasoning was win rate. You're entitled to an opinion we all are, but Ras doesn't have a positive win rate even versus me, and I would be shocked if he did versus Krass, Sam, etc.

However I guess you can just say he wasn't trying. :/. I think Ras is a good team player, maybe top 10 if you just look at it from a team perspective, but 1v1 I wouldn't even rate him top 10.

[Captain Nemo]

Cant wait Krass on top, second is Myst, then... goldeneye maybe. splinter, bones, ras, dave... then idk. You can form it like the mod dm top players topic I made once lol.

BE was caught cheating and can't exactly be concidered then. I don't know if it was just one game or so, but if u've done it one time theres no telling if u used map hack the entire time. It was a big issue back then cause it was so so hard to catch. Epic was caught too btw (ESGL banned him idk anymore never saw him cheat, and I would have if he did it), but as far as I remember it was actually epic who caught BE lol, or at least claimed he cheated before anyone caught him.

As for the old players etc, well yes more competition would increase the level a bit, but I doubt it'd be by alot.

And as for ras I get the impression he knows everything there is to know about liga. All the little tricks in the book when your opponent does one thing he always knows what to do. But it seems to me he has a bit more relaxed playing style which also makes his skill level drop compared to people like krass and sam who give it their best - and make good results, make no mistake. If you wanna be the best - you gotta try very hard.

[dan]

" Likes Nemos post "

[[-Ts-] Tricky]

by ben55 » Sun May 27, 2012 10:33 am

Well your reasoning was win rate. You're entitled to an opinion we all are, but Ras doesn't have a positive win rate even versus me, and I would be shocked if he did versus Krass, Sam, etc.

However I guess you can just say he wasn't trying. :/. I think Ras is a good team player, maybe top 10 if you just look at it from a team perspective, but 1v1 I wouldn't even rate him top 10.

by Captain Nemo » Sun May 27, 2012 10:54 am

Cant wait Krass on top, second is Myst, then... goldeneye maybe. splinter, bones, ras, dave... then idk. You can form it like the mod dm top players topic I made once lol.


WoWWWW loooool rofl you guys for real? Guess you guys didnt see when ras was beating up on krass before krass spammed him every day for 1v1. In my eyes as a 1v1 player and team player for strats and game play ras is best from all above the two you put.

kinda joke really you two maybe should of played more liga then and watched ras abit more to be fair i didnt see you two play much liga when ws and ec was active why is this cus you seen krass 1v1 more cus he host more 1v1 games than ras ever did so you seen him play more ? :s

And nemo cus BE got caught once you cant judge him out of being one of the best people make mistakes and he only got caught once out of 100`s of games ?

[simple_faith]

trix dont play no games, he's serious like a cereal box

[Captain Nemo]

lol trix I can't judge from what I haven't seen can I? No, I never played any liga back then, which is why I use terms as "it seems to me". But I also know krass improved since he started on sc2. That much I can tell. btw that "list" is merely what I thought sam would put in his Was that not clear?

As for cheaters, I couldn't give a fuck about them. Ill label them as I wish for they are the scum of EE. Least you can do is admit it, apologize and say it'll never happen again. Once you've been caught cheating, the question is always how much did this guy really cheat, and is his entire performance based on cheating? As for liga players who would tribute glitch I have no doubt they'd be using a much less risky kind of cheat like asus drivers too. I have to say I never saw the actual proof of BE cheating but everybody on Clanzone said it back then and they counted amongst the people u'd trust with this info.

Anyway fact is I've seen ras play alot (other setts) and he hasn't impressed me in the way you speak of tricky, ever. If you only "try" in 1 out of 1000 games you'll be judged by the 999 rather than the one.

I'd still rate him at the very top of all sett players I've seen tho, he's a truely great player no doubt.

[simple_faith]

nemo dont play no games, serious like a cereal box

[tool]

ras is the best, i can argue this all day and i possess the screenshots and quotes of people he's defeated to prove it, after all this is much more noble than actually playing ee. like any of us will ever succeed ras, i highly doubt it.

[Samuel]

It's about time that I post my opinion.
But before I do so, let me state something. I'm possibly the player who has played the highest number of 1v1s in the last 2 - 3 years. I have played an insane number of 1v1s and with basically every kind of opponent. From Krass to Wolvy, from Ras to Goldi, from BONES to Splinter, from Kirac to Dave.

Tricky, no offense, but you have missed all of the 1v1 drama of the last 3 years. You have not played DavE over 300 times, or Goldeneye over 100 times, or Splinter over 1000 times. You have not taken part in the 1v1 rivalries of the last years, where me, BONES, Splinter, DavE and other players would play.

Tricky, you say "WoWWWW loooool rofl you guys for real?" .... but then let me ask YOU .... are YOU for real????
Are you really claiming you have had the 1v1ing experience that other people have had in the past years? Because if there is one truth that most of these 1v1ers have expressed throghout these years, is that KrasS is undoubtely the best Liga 1v1 player.

Now .... who are YOU to claim otherwise? What kind of experience do YOU claim to have to make such judgements, and even say "WoWWWW loooool rofl you guys for real?", as if you could actually speak from experience??? Can't you really perceive how contradictory your statement is??

No offence Tricky, but whilst you might be a very good player on the things you do best, you lack this sort of experience.

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Now back on topic, I will talk about what I think about most players, although I'm not gonna give my definitive ranking yet. It is quite astonishing to me how some REALLY GOOD players are being completely forgotten. Whilst you guys are trying to "decide" who's better between Krass and Ras, you are completely overlooking Goldeneye, Myst, Splinter, Bones, Dave, Wolvy and other players.

Now, Tricky, and I will still talk to you to make my point (even though this is directed to every player), on what basis are you saying that, for example, Wolvy isn't as good as ras? What experience are you bringing, what deep analysis will you enlighten us with to claim that Goldi is not as good?

I am speaking on behalf of all of these players: and it is on behalf of these players that I will say what my opinion is on these matters. I have witnessed Krass in 2010, as well as Goldi in the end of the same year (I have played him over 100 1v1s) and I think to be the only one who might be able to compare the two. I have also played with ras some months later, and in the meantime, continuous challenges with BONES, Splinter, DavE, Wolvy and other players have taken place.

Krass is the best player I have ever witnessed. To me, his micro equals Myst's, and his game reading ability is second to none. I'd say it equals mine regarding the early-mid game phase, but it surpasses mine in the long game. Possibly, Goldeneye's late game play and analysis surpasses Krass', but Goldi is definitely not as good in early game (I have outsmarted successfully Goldeneye in most early game phases, but he would win many games in the long run).

I have played ras too, and to me his early game doesn't equal my early game or krass', although he might be better than me in the later phases of the game, his late game doesn't match goldi's.

Goldeneye makes up for his "weakness" in the early game with superb defensive abilities and perhaps the most solid late game I have seen, which makes him, to me, the 2nd best liga player after Krass.
I think Krass games develop in a quite similar way as my games do: by 10 f11 he has acquired an advantage, due to early game analysis, and he is able to almost keep up with Goldi's late game, but with better micro. This is why, to me, Krass has been able to surpass Goldeneye already in 2010.

I'm also sure that Krass would beat Goldeneye in the Ren to Indy ages quite easily, although Goldeneye's mod age was by far the most impressive I have seen, and he would probably have the edge against 2010's Krass.

Back on the other topic of our dicussion, to me Splinter (the player who, in 2010, has perhaps given Krass the most problems), Bones, Wolvy, Myst are by no means inferior to ras. They are, however, not as good as Krass or Goldeneye.

The talk that there should be, if any, is the one about Krass and Goldeneye, and give credit where it's due.

It is completely UNFAIR that players who have improved relatively recently (Splinter, Dave, myself) and other players who just haven't been as active in the last days or perhaps didn't care as much about their own image (Goldeneye, Myst, Bones) aren't reputed to be as good as ras, just because he has had a stronger reputation over the years. Because in the end, the only thing that's keeping up this Krass vs ras argument is ras' reputation.

Don't get me wrong, ras is definitely an amazing player. But he has never proved to be better than the other players that I have mentioned.
Some players might keep up this Krass vs ras "challenge" by reputation, but I know what I am doing.
I am judging by skill. I am judging on the basis of what I have seen, as the player who has played the highest count of 1v1s in the latest 3 years, and if there's someone who should have a say about this all, that someone is me.

[ben55]

I never thought Wolvy was THAT good honestly, but I only played a dozen or so games with him -- and maybe four 1v1s at most. I never lost those games either, but they were in digi/nano my best ages. Not to mention Wolvy was a terrible teammate.

I never played with Goldy in liga except maybe twice? Can't really comment on him. He was exceptional at mod tl though.

I played with Bones, Splinter, Sam and Ras quite a bit even Dave too. Ras was by far the worst out of those five in 1v1. Sam and Dave probably beat me 70% of the time. Splinter and Bones was 50/50. Ras I almost never lost to.

Krass was an exceptional player. I watched him play quite a few 1v1s and I played versus him quite a few times (mostly mod dm/tl though). Although I did play versus him in liga about a dozen times, and I only remember winning two, because they were very bizarre wins.

I'd give ras a nod as great teammate and overall setting players (not many actually care to play all settings well -- so that to me is a great feat). 1v1 Liga was not his strong point though IMO.

[Arntzen]

I'd like to call in ras/bones/bc/wolvy/krass/splinter as witnesses. Can't say I'm satisfied with you, Samuel, as haveing the last word here. After all you, as you stated yourself your area of expertise are 3-2 years from now. Overlooking the 7 other years.

Also that ras wins the argument because of is reputation to me just sounds dumb. Considering every eC and most people on here have only seen at his prime Krass, and not Ras. When you ask BONES or BC who actually have seen both at their prime, they say Ras. Then again, those two arent enough to please you all I'm sure.

It is completely UNFAIR that players who have improved relatively recently (Splinter, Dave, myself) and other players who just haven't been as active in the last days or perhaps didn't care as much about their own image (Goldeneye, Myst, Bones) aren't reputed to be as good as ras, just because he has had a stronger reputation over the years. Because in the end, the only thing that's keeping up this Krass vs ras argument is ras' reputation.

As if Ras cared any more than BONES about his reputation since 2008. -.-

Also about the overlooking, BONES said himself he played equal to BC when they were both at their best, and I cant see BC on anyones list. And they both told me Ras > them. As many of you know they have huge ego's so they wud not say something like this, unless it was more or less obvious.

[Captain Nemo]

BC? Doubt he was that good lol, nobody (but himself) ever spoke of him being anything special. He couldn't play wing and always just boomed and let his wing down in pocket. + he cheated many times. You really want him to have the last word?

wolvy and splinter are still sort of "new experts" when compared to ras. BONES a little older but still nothing oldschool like, I can remember all of them coming from low skill and working their way up, and I even trained wolvy.

On a sitenote I don't think ras ever cared too much about his rep, but some of his fans might have lol.